Comments on: The Bell Curve & Charter Schools: The Not So Odd Couple

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 20:38:00 +0000

half of our children go to public schools and the other half to charter schools. From experience, I have seen public schools that are great, some okay, and some that are horrible. I have seen the same thing with charter schools.

in many economically deprived areas, most schools ARE charter schools. in those areas, the schools are meeting the fed and state requirements can only accept so many students so the parents are forced to go to poorer schools or charter schools. I really don’t see the choice in that UNLESS you make enough $$$ to send them to a private school.

By: dantresomi

dantresomi — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 20:38:00 +0000

By: rianaelyse

rianaelyse — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:59:36 +0000

We must discuss this one on my venture to NY! I had quite a semester challenging the Murray text, both as a TA in my Intro to Psych course and as a future psychologist/former teacher to the Harvard Law School shenanigans. As you stated so eloquently, that “bell curve” graph of intelligence is sickening at “above average” levels, but you were absolutely right to cite past performance, rather than ability and school impact, on such a model. Both Murray and the Harvard student refuse to address the “what ifs”…afterall, they note, it is impossible to imagine a society that does NOT have discriminatory practice, so why even construct it in the scenario? Well, quite simply, for the policy analyst and future lawyer, imagining the society in that realm is a major part of your motivation! If you're only operating on past conditions, your policy recommendations and practice of the law will reflect an inability of people of color to achieve academically. Granted, I am the child of public school championers, so charters were never my cup of tea, but it is allowing an option to make a change in the lives of these children. And all we are asking for (well, some of us) is the chance for our children to succeed. To answer your question then, in order to be savvy enough to know who is for us and who is against us, we need to build up the networks and information on these subjects in a NON-ACADEMIC way for community members to digest, rather than go back and forth in Dyson dialect (which even leaves me starry eyed)! Keep it simple (academic) sillies!

By: rianaelyse

rianaelyse — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:59:00 +0000

We must discuss this one on my venture to NY! I had quite a semester challenging the Murray text, both as a TA in my Intro to Psych course and as a future psychologist/former teacher to the Harvard Law School shenanigans. As you stated so eloquently, that “bell curve” graph of intelligence is sickening at “above average” levels, but you were absolutely right to cite past performance, rather than ability and school impact, on such a model. Both Murray and the Harvard student refuse to address the “what ifs”…afterall, they note, it is impossible to imagine a society that does NOT have discriminatory practice, so why even construct it in the scenario? Well, quite simply, for the policy analyst and future lawyer, imagining the society in that realm is a major part of your motivation! If you’re only operating on past conditions, your policy recommendations and practice of the law will reflect an inability of people of color to achieve academically. Granted, I am the child of public school championers, so charters were never my cup of tea, but it is allowing an option to make a change in the lives of these children. And all we are asking for (well, some of us) is the chance for our children to succeed. To answer your question then, in order to be savvy enough to know who is for us and who is against us, we need to build up the networks and information on these subjects in a NON-ACADEMIC way for community members to digest, rather than go back and forth in Dyson dialect (which even leaves me starry eyed)! Keep it simple (academic) sillies!

By: sunt97

sunt97 — Mon, 17 May 2010 19:22:08 +0000

I can't get behind the charter schools, well at least the ones in my district. They are terrible. The only reason why parents are sending their kids to them is that they provide door to door service with a bus. Yeah parents are too lazy to take their kids to the public schools. I hate the fact the get funds, get frustrated with unruly kids, kick them out, they come back to the public schools without the $3000 dollars the state grants each student. Now there are some gems in other districts that have turned kids grades around and have been a huge difference. I just have a problem when they close down a public school because of low enrollment due to these charter schools which are lacking in every way.

Peace, Love and Chocolate
Tiffany

By: sunt97

sunt97 — Mon, 17 May 2010 14:22:00 +0000

I can’t get behind the charter schools, well at least the ones in my district. They are terrible. The only reason why parents are sending their kids to them is that they provide door to door service with a bus. Yeah parents are too lazy to take their kids to the public schools. I hate the fact the get funds, get frustrated with unruly kids, kick them out, they come back to the public schools without the $3000 dollars the state grants each student. Now there are some gems in other districts that have turned kids grades around and have been a huge difference. I just have a problem when they close down a public school because of low enrollment due to these charter schools which are lacking in every way.

Peace, Love and Chocolate
Tiffany

By: bryantroupe

bryantroupe — Fri, 07 May 2010 10:15:55 +0000

You make some really great points. Individuals like Murray may seem to have our best interests in mind at first glance; however this is anything but the case. The bad thing about this is there is an entire class of individuals that will agree with Mr. Murray's point of view, which in my opinion, only hinders the topic of progression.

By: BryanTroupe

BryanTroupe — Fri, 07 May 2010 05:15:00 +0000

You make some really great points. Individuals like Murray may seem to have our best interests in mind at first glance; however this is anything but the case. The bad thing about this is there is an entire class of individuals that will agree with Mr. Murray’s point of view, which in my opinion, only hinders the topic of progression.

By: dumilewis

dumilewis — Thu, 06 May 2010 20:22:44 +0000

I was never smart enough to take an Adams class or get in her lab, but I heard great things!

By: dumilewis

dumilewis — Thu, 06 May 2010 20:22:06 +0000

So I think there are about a million folks you should stand with before you stand with Murray or use Murray's op-ed for support of charter schools. The portion of his argument that you like has been made 100 times over by people who actually care about Black children, Murray is not in that camp. If I have a choice between Sharpton and Murray, I'm going Sharpton any day! ;)

By: Noel

Noel — Thu, 06 May 2010 20:12:06 +0000

Great post bruh! However, as an active proponent of charter schools and a parent who witnessed the positive impact of a particular charter school on a number of children, I have to say that fundamentally I agree with Murrays statements. That is, despite the fact that he goes on to marginalize the lack of improvement in test scores when weighed against the right to school choice. I do take issue with Murrays seeming self-contradiction when he states that “Cognitive ability, personality and motivation come mostly from home” and that smart & motivated children will always do better in spite of the school. This appears to be a veiled reference to the genetics of an individual and excludes any environmental factors, which I disagree with.
Lastly, to directly address your post, I think that Murray's tepid endorsement of school choice can still be used by advocates, even if it is somewhat misdirected.
At any rate, I appreciate you bringing the conversation to me and look forward to more!

By: Donovan X. Ramsey

Donovan X. Ramsey — Thu, 06 May 2010 19:39:57 +0000

An analysis of the literature that Dr. Jann Adams would be proud of.

By: dumilewis

dumilewis — Thu, 06 May 2010 15:22:00 +0000

So I think there are about a million folks you should stand with before you stand with Murray or use Murray’s op-ed for support of charter schools. The portion of his argument that you like has been made 100 times over by people who actually care about Black children, Murray is not in that camp. If I have a choice between Sharpton and Murray, I’m going Sharpton any day! ;)

By: dumilewis

dumilewis — Thu, 06 May 2010 15:22:00 +0000

I was never smart enough to take an Adams class or get in her lab, but I heard great things!

By: Noel

Noel — Thu, 06 May 2010 15:12:00 +0000

Great post bruh! However, as an active proponent of charter schools and a parent who witnessed the positive impact of a particular charter school on a number of children, I have to say that fundamentally I agree with Murrays statements. That is, despite the fact that he goes on to marginalize the lack of improvement in test scores when weighed against the right to school choice. I do take issue with Murrays seeming self-contradiction when he states that “Cognitive ability, personality and motivation come mostly from home” and that smart & motivated children will always do better in spite of the school. This appears to be a veiled reference to the genetics of an individual and excludes any environmental factors, which I disagree with.
Lastly, to directly address your post, I think that Murray’s tepid endorsement of school choice can still be used by advocates, even if it is somewhat misdirected.
At any rate, I appreciate you bringing the conversation to me and look forward to more!

By: Tweets that mention Careful of some School Choice Advocates - Uptown Notes -- Topsy.com

Thu, 06 May 2010 14:50:28 +0000

[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by UptownNotes.com, UptownNotes.com, UptownNotes.com, UptownNotes.com, Exalted Women and others. Exalted Women said: Recommended piece: http://bit.ly/9YzJn1 by @dumilewis -provides needed context 2 @charlesmurray OPed on charter schools in @NYTimes […]

By: Donovan X. Ramsey

Donovan X. Ramsey — Thu, 06 May 2010 14:39:00 +0000

An analysis of the literature that Dr. Jann Adams would be proud of.